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Post by Steve on Apr 30, 2017 12:44:30 GMT -5
If you have any comments to add about why PIMs should be dropped or kept as a category, please post below.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 14:20:08 GMT -5
PIMS is a biggie. I just took over this team so it doesn't apply here yet, but generally PIMS is a huge factor in my drafting and player selection.
Keep PIMS! There is always soccer for you PIM haters out there!
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Post by Whalers on Apr 30, 2017 16:33:41 GMT -5
I love Pims , one of my favourite categories, MAKE HOCKEY VIOLENT AGAIN!
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Post by Whalers on Apr 30, 2017 16:33:58 GMT -5
Word
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 18:00:40 GMT -5
this stat should remain as well
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Post by Anth on Apr 30, 2017 19:44:04 GMT -5
why should it remain? it encourages negative behaviour. Its an archaic fantasy stat. We already have hits & blocked shots which are positively aggressive cats. Both are equally violent--especially hits --yet they contribute toward positive behaviours. we don't need to keep a stat for the only reason beign that "we always have' or that 'I plan for them well'...just...don't plan for PIMs anymore. simple.
Let's take a look at how important PIMs are in the game today vs 20 years ago
A) 1996-1997 season
NHL PIM Leader = Gino Odjick - 371 PIMs
#of Players with 300+ PIMs = 3
#of Players with 200+ PIMs = 22
#of Players with 100+ PIMs = 116
B) 2016-2017 season
NHL PIM Leader = Mark Borowiecki - 154 PIMs
#of Players with 300+ PIMs = 0
#of Players with 200+ PIMs = 0
#of Players with 100+ PIMs = 14
Nuff' said.
Goons are gone. and if you're looking for somewhat talented players who can fight..there's generally a correlation to high 'hits' quantities for the same (aggressive) players.....who are generally 4th liners.(a la Matt Martin & Clutterbuck). why do we need multiple categories where 4th liners generally thrive the most? **End of the day.. PIMs 'were' important for fantasy hockey for many years..but they have long gone the way of the Dodo bird in significance with no turnaround likely to ever to come.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 21:02:41 GMT -5
why should it remain? it encourages negative behaviour. Its an archaic fantasy stat. We already have hits & blocked shots which are positively aggressive cats. Both are equally violent--especially hits --yet they contribute toward positive behaviours. we don't need to keep a stat for the only reason beign that "we always have' or that 'I plan for them well'...just...don't plan for PIMs anymore. simple. Let's take a look at how important PIMs are in the game today vs 20 years ago A) 1996-1997 season NHL PIM Leader = Gino Odjick - 371 PIMs #of Players with 300+ PIMs = 3 #of Players with 200+ PIMs = 22 #of Players with 100+ PIMs = 116 B) 2016-2017 season NHL PIM Leader = Mark Borowiecki - 154 PIMs #of Players with 300+ PIMs = 0 #of Players with 200+ PIMs = 0 #of Players with 100+ PIMs = 14 Nuff' said. Goons are gone. and if you're looking for somewhat talented players who can fight..there's generally a correlation to high 'hits' quantities for the same (aggressive) players.....who are generally 4th liners.(a la Matt Martin & Clutterbuck). why do we need multiple categories where 4th liners generally thrive the most? **End of the day.. PIMs 'were' important for fantasy hockey for many years..but they have long gone the way of the Dodo bird in significance with no turnaround likely to ever to come. Wrong. |
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Post by Steve on May 1, 2017 4:57:00 GMT -5
I think that because fantasy hockey has grown and added a number of additional categories over the years that PIMs really isn't such a good category any longer. After all, why are we scoring a negative category. Yes, it is traditional, but sometimes you have to look beyond what we've always had in fantasy hockey leagues.
As Anth points out, PIMs are way down compared to where they have been historically. In a lot of leagues I'm in, PIMs have been removed because HITs provides a great category for the hard nosed players without rewarding a category that puts an NHL team at a disadvantage.
Even though I'm ok with leaving PIMs in as a category as I'm usually near the top in this category, I think it is better for the league to remove this category for the reasons listed above.
To me, it is time to make a change, which is why I voted to remove PIMs as a category in this league.
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Post by Ryan on May 1, 2017 7:34:30 GMT -5
Voted to keep PIMs
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Post by Whalers on May 1, 2017 12:26:58 GMT -5
I don't even know where to start here, First of all how bout we keep PIMS in because thats what men do. I've never been in a pool without them and to me its just as important as any other stat. Yes the game is changing and I like it but I like tradition just as much. Ive always liked the tough guys in hockey way more than the stars, When I buy Jerseys I get Probert Domi Semenko Twist ECT. Older guys yes but even today if I'm getting a Leafs jersey its Matt Martin Only. Yes PIMS are in decline but still are a valid stat and part of strategy, I absolutely despise +/- but i still voted to keep it in because some guys like it so I'm not going to just ignore it. Acceptance is what I'm preaching here boys LOL. Tradition and Progression together making it more fun.
Otherwise I vote then we get rid of Points as a category because scoring is down Significantly with not much turnaround likely to come.
Lets take a look at points today as compared to aprox 35 years ago
A) 1984-1985 season
NHL scoring leader Wayne Gretzky 208 pts
# of players with 200+ Pts 1
# of players with 110+ Pts 6
# of players with 100+ Pts 16
# of players with 90+ Pts 23
B) 2016-2017 season
NHL scoring leader Connor Mcdavid 100 pts
# of players with 200+ Pts 0
# of players with 110+ Pts 0
# of players with 100+ Pts 1
# of players with 90+ Pts 0
So there, Lets keep Pims Points and stupid +/- LOL and Good luck to everyone this year, I'm sure it will be even more fun than last. Lets go WHALERS!!!
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Post by Moose on May 1, 2017 14:39:53 GMT -5
"how bout we keep PIMS in because thats what men do" This sums up my thoughts on this vote. |
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Post by Steve on May 1, 2017 14:53:10 GMT -5
Well if anything, you guys are definitely passionate about what you want and don't want as categories in this league.
Thanks for all the great responses.
As the title of this league suggests it is the GM Hockey League we have going here, so it'll be your opinion that will carry the day as to what we are using for categories here.
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Post by Anth on May 1, 2017 17:22:10 GMT -5
Adam.. All due respect, do you mind expanding on your 1 word rebuttal?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 0:16:19 GMT -5
I don't even know where to start here, First of all how bout we keep PIMS in because thats what men do. I've never been in a pool without them and to me its just as important as any other stat. Yes the game is changing and I like it but I like tradition just as much. Ive always liked the tough guys in hockey way more than the stars, When I buy Jerseys I get Probert Domi Semenko Twist ECT. Older guys yes but even today if I'm getting a Leafs jersey its Matt Martin Only. Yes PIMS are in decline but still are a valid stat and part of strategy, I absolutely despise +/- but i still voted to keep it in because some guys like it so I'm not going to just ignore it. Acceptance is what I'm preaching here boys LOL. Tradition and Progression together making it more fun. Otherwise I vote then we get rid of Points as a category because scoring is down Significantly with not much turnaround likely to come. Lets take a look at points today as compared to aprox 35 years ago A) 1984-1985 season NHL scoring leader Wayne Gretzky 208 pts # of players with 200+ Pts 1 # of players with 110+ Pts 6 # of players with 100+ Pts 16 # of players with 90+ Pts 23 B) 2016-2017 season NHL scoring leader Connor Mcdavid 100 pts # of players with 200+ Pts 0 # of players with 110+ Pts 0 # of players with 100+ Pts 1 # of players with 90+ Pts 0 So there, Lets keep Pims Points and stupid +/- LOL and Good luck to everyone this year, I'm sure it will be even more fun than last. Lets go WHALERS!!! I'm assuming this, and the majority of your other reasons to keep this irrelevant stat category, are just a joke. PIMs are by far the most useless stat in fantasy hockey. There is ZERO predictability to PIMs in a weekly h2h format and they have been steadily declining year over year. Steve won the category by a LANDSLIDE and we finished 4th and even we see how stupid this category is. I could maybe see an argument if this was a roto league but in a h2h its just moronic. Your "enforcer" gets kicked out of a game so you win one week and he sits in the press box for the next 2 weeks or just plays 6 useless minutes. I won't even start with the 10 minute misconduct that occurs in the final seconds of a game. And I laugh at the comment that PIMs are draft priorities. This year's Top 5 PIMs leaders with stats (PIMs, G, A, PPP, SOG, FW): Borowiecki (154, 1, 2, 0, 50, 1) McLeod (145, 5, 1, 0, 30, 0) Wilson (133, 7, 12, 0, 95, 3) Haley (128, 2, 10, 0, 37, 66) ***unowned free agent Martin (123, 5, 4, 0, 66, 0) Reach for the sky! The top 5 PIMs producers have nearly zero value otherwise. Keep drafting them please! The majority of the NHL falls in the same 40-60 PIM range and as I've said, on a week to week basis category wins are more often luck than good player management. You want a category that represents tough hockey? We got it, HITS. You can ignorantly mock Anth's post but he hit it right on the nail: "Goons are gone. and if you're looking for somewhat talented players who can fight..there's generally a correlation to high 'hits' quantities for the same (aggressive) players." Hits are something you can easily find in a draft or on the waiver wire. Down with PIMs. Keep bone crunching, manly hits. Eliminate stupid high sticks, trips, dives, goalie interference, delay of game, etc. |
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Post by Whalers on May 2, 2017 3:36:22 GMT -5
Easy there bud, take a breathe and relax. You're clearly too over emotional on this subject lol. You missed the entire point of my post where i said we should keep all the stats we have and accept them weather we like some of them or not. It makes it more fun.
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Post by Anth on May 2, 2017 5:42:46 GMT -5
Whalers... that is a sad state of affairs to keep that mantra. The world's evolvin man. Embrace change. Do you think the NHL should have banned slapshots after their previous non-existence for the league's first 40 years? Are helmets dumb? Cheering for Marty McSorley taking a swing at Donald Brashear's skull?....thats a great category to keep...........
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Post by Moose on May 2, 2017 13:31:14 GMT -5
I'm giving the Potato Chips 2 minutes for too many voters on the ice, 10 minute misconduct for argruing about a classic stat and a $25 fine to be collected by me as winnings next season.
;P
I like the offseason passion from all you goons. Keep it up.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 14:33:46 GMT -5
I can picture Potato Chip's vein pulsing in his head as he vigorously types away. Lashing out a bit using terms suck as 'Joke' 'Moronic' 'Ingnorantly'.
That type of attitude results from a lack of 'goons' on the other team to straighten out suspect behaviour.
Long live the PIM!
I vote keep all stats, adds strategy. Ok you don't want to employ a guy just for PIMS, no problem, go another route. The more angles in a pool, the more interesting it is ive found. Simplified, lower stat pools can become a bit dull.
But whatever, I won't be losing sleep over it either way.
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Post by Steve on May 2, 2017 15:15:45 GMT -5
I'd rather lose PIMs then not simply because I think fantasy hockey should be about stats that a player can get that actually helps his team. PIMs generally put your team at a disadvantage, but there are definitely good penalties and bad penalties as we all know.
I know some of your guys if not all of us are quite traditional when it comes to fantasy hockey and the categories we use; however, some categories probably should be dropped.
That being said, I really don't mind the category either because I can actually draft for PIMs. All things being equal between 2 players, I'll take the one that also contributes PIMs because he fills that need.
As someone who leans more of a purist's perspective, PIMs really should be dropped in my opinion. Mind you, you could also say that as a purists, categories like PIMs and SHOs should definitely be used in our fantasy hockey league.
Just my .02 worth.
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Post by scoop12ca on May 2, 2017 21:40:02 GMT -5
lose the pims as a counter to the shutouts. pims in a head to head are also a little random. all you need is one 5 min major and /or misconduct and you are practically assured the win. besides that the rosters of teams is changing and there are relatively few goons left anyway. the "hardnosed" player will help you in blocks and hits so you can still employ those types of players so the number of players that are useful in the free agent pool are still significant.
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Post by Stu on May 7, 2017 15:53:19 GMT -5
Voted to keep it the same. PIMS needs to stay. There are still lots of players out there that get decent pims and cover others categories. Why should there fantasy value get lowered? We didnt have a single trade at the deadline this year. Getting ride of pims and other categories wont help out this situation at all.
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Post by Moose on May 8, 2017 8:14:07 GMT -5
Wow...we are potentially a couple votes away from dropping PIMS and keeping plus/minus. What a shame.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 14:16:28 GMT -5
I like bangers having a role. Enforcers aren't around anymore in the NHL to the degree they once were, but taking a category because you have a guy that fights every now and again is nice. Keep it.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 18:39:14 GMT -5
I vote to keep PIMs as a category, many things have changed from years ago, just makes it more challenging to assemble the right lineup for the categories assigned.
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Post by Steve on Jun 3, 2017 13:41:40 GMT -5
Wow. This was definitely the most heated discussion we had for these poll questions. That being said, there simply is not enough interest to remove PIMs from our league and therefore, we'll be retaining this category.
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