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Post by Steve on Jul 12, 2015 10:37:15 GMT -5
I would ask that when you vote that you provide some solid reason(s) why we should or should not expand.
Stating that you lose players, while valid, really doesn't tell us anything we don't already know because all teams will lose players.
If your reason for voting no revolves around "I wouldn't have traded this player for another goalie" had I known tells me that you would've only adequately filled 1 goalie slot for up to 4 years, which would have likely meant that it was virtually impossible for you to win the league over this time frame.
If you don't want to post any reason(s) other than what you've stated previously, that's fine too.
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Post by Steve on Jul 12, 2015 10:42:09 GMT -5
All things considered, I think expansion is in the best interests of the league. It fosters better competition and allows more GMs to be part of what is a pretty good fantasy hockey league.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 12:49:31 GMT -5
I agree that this league needs a big time face lift. It's pretty much a 7 team league, and everyone else pretty much.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 13:06:47 GMT -5
So for me, we are better off starting off over rather than letting in two teams
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 13:36:01 GMT -5
Like look at Steve's team for one. His team won't be bad at all for a long time to come. So he always has a shot at making money every season. While as for teams that aren't as good, the only way they'll make money is by getting lucky in the playoffs
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 13:49:29 GMT -5
I voted yes, but I agree with Jason. If we expand, lets just draft new teams. We have all the managers and rules in place so we have a good foundation. This gives the new guys a chance to compete right away because everyone is starting from scratch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 14:05:20 GMT -5
Jason and Lucas think the plan was to add two new teams through a dispersal system. Not to do a complete new redraft. Steve/Glenn please clarify as this may change these two votes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 15:12:01 GMT -5
Let me clarify. I will say yes to expansion if we do a complete redraft. I will say no to expansion if it is just a dispersal draft.
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Post by Steve on Jul 12, 2015 16:03:10 GMT -5
Definitely an expansion draft to add two new teams that will choose the players from those you don't protect as per the post in the announcement thread and the e-mail you received yesterday.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 16:11:17 GMT -5
Steve and I have been contacted by others looking to enter the G off n on over the last few seasons. We did contract 2 teams years back when they were run by shitty GMs and the teams were left in bad shape. We figured with a year to go before actual NHL expansion we'd get these 2 teams in. (I actually thought of taking and expansion team myself and letting a new GM take my squad) however if ya read the postings by both Steve and I over there it lists all the benefits throughout.
I see absolutely no reason not to do it. Other than a GM worried about losing a fringe player or #2 goalie over 30. The fact that I'm prepared to take a backseat by taking a new franchise for what I think is in the betterment of the league overall should say something. My squad is by far not a top team in this league but very season I scratch and claw and make deals to qualify for a playoff spot cuz once making it in anything can happen. The money doesn't mean anything to me compared to the drive of building a contender and finally reaching the top the mountain.
With that said gentlemen there's little more I can say to sway you.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards
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Post by Ryan on Jul 12, 2015 17:10:43 GMT -5
Voted. Don't feel the need to comment since all my input and request for direct answers has been blatantly ignored. Given this, and the use of the word "sway" in others' comments truly gives the sense that implementing this was for 2/14 and not for 8/14 (majority). Please convince me I'm wrong here.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 18:12:59 GMT -5
I voted no, mostly because I don't agree with the dropping of positions to facilitate the new teams (specifically the G spot) I believe all fantasy league should have min 2 goalie spots. I also don't think expanding to 16 right now is best for the league as a whole since we don't have 14 active quality GMs as it is. While we have cut some dead weight over recent years, I think there are a couple far to inactive GMs to expand at this time.
Finally I do agree with Lucas and Jason (shudders) that if we do want to go to 16 teams we should just redraft. With all the rule changes that have happened and the contracting/now possibly expanding of teams there is a clear divide in quality teams vs non quality teams (and I am saying that as someone who believes they have a team that has a chance to win every year) there are lots of teams I look at and won't have a shot for 5 years at least.
For those wanting to join a new league drafting from the start, I am starting one up on Fantrax that will be 16 teams with very clear and concise rules from the beginning that will not be deviated from. PM me if interested. (I am not leaving this league btw, this is for those wanting to join a 2nd league that is started from scratch.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 18:17:46 GMT -5
Voted. Don't feel the need to comment since all my input and request for direct answers has been blatantly ignored. Given this, and the use of the word "sway" in others' comments truly gives the sense that implementing this was for 2/14 and not for 8/14 (majority). Please convince me I'm wrong here. Brother I'm not sure where you feel yer being ignored here. I'm fairly certain that with all the posts I've offered up I've covered just about if not all concerns raised over the last 2-3 years. I have stated all that multiple times. That looking at the big picture it helps with all those concerns. To me we all need to look at this with a governors approach. I understand that losing a player(s) sucks but remember that I'm a GM as well and if that's all it costs to fill the league with more excellent team owners, divisions that foster rivalries and have a schedule that's evenly balanced. I'd do it a hundred times. (Well not a real hundred just 2) Any expansion would coincide with NHL expansion as well. All of a sudden there will be 3rd-4th line guys from now getting 1st- 2nd line minutes. Everyone would benefit. I'd even go as far as taking an expansion squad myself while passing my team off to another GM. Stev and I have been tasked with trying to solve these concerns you all have brought to our attention to continue to enhance what's already imo a great league of GMs. I can understand anyone getting heated as yer entitled to yer opinion. But this is also 2 years down the road boys. If for any reason anyone here believes that I've voted for this without the best interest of the league right out in front me all I can say is that you're mistaken. Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 20:37:35 GMT -5
I don't think anyone here is saying you or Steve are proposing this for any reason other then you guys believe it is in best interest of the league, Steve and to a lesser extant you Glenn have teams on the "strong" half of the league who would be most effected by this. So I don't think anyone thinks you guys are proposing this to gain some advantage. I personally and hope others voting no actually just disagree that it is best for the league.
Funny thing is there are probably 4 teams in which not a single player would be taken from, so in effect by weakening the other stronger teams, giving those weak teams a better chance in near future. Having said that I HATE artificial parody helping the weak/dumb teams/gms because they screwed up there teams is something I can never stand behind, which is why I have been against most of our rule changes.
IMO the only real option is to completely restart the league draft from scratch with preset rules that are guaranteed not to change for 5 years minimum.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 22:04:49 GMT -5
Guess me, and Anthony are best buds lol
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Post by scoop12ca on Jul 13, 2015 0:37:50 GMT -5
i voted no in the first vote for expansion because i felt the league, which i had just joined by answering an ad on dobber forums, was not in a good position to expand. now that i have spent about a year in the league and meeting most of the managers, i feel the league has been stabilized because of the contraction and weeding out of inactive and bad managers so i voted yes this time. i would like to ask glen and steve that they make sure the two new managers are people they know or are highly recommended to them from reliable sources. we belong to a strong league and i would hate to see it become weak because of the urge to expand at all costs. if two new mangers with great recommendations or references or what every you want to call it cannot be found then lets not expand. i don't believe we need a complete do over draft. the expansion draft the "brain" trust of the league has in mind would be suitable i believe. i don't think it would cost any team too much. i know some people will look at my team and say nobody on my team is in danger of getting drafted so i have nothing invested but i am just throwing out my opinion.
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Post by Steve on Jul 13, 2015 5:12:04 GMT -5
Voted. Don't feel the need to comment since all my input and request for direct answers has been blatantly ignored. Given this, and the use of the word "sway" in others' comments truly gives the sense that implementing this was for 2/14 and not for 8/14 (majority). Please convince me I'm wrong here. Ryan, I thought I had covered your questions when I provided answers yesterday morning. If you want to talk about it more, meet me on YIM when you are next able to and we can discuss whatever you think is required. |
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Post by Ryan on Jul 13, 2015 7:27:47 GMT -5
Steve and Glenn, thanks for the replies. I would go on YIM but I have been travelling Asia for the past 2 weeks and won't have that opportunity until I'm home on the 16th. Until then, I wanted you to know I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with expansion. I said I would, and did, vote yes as I did in the 2014 vote - for all the same reasons you have discussed.
What really irked me was waking up to an email out of thin air describing how the league was going to drastically change with an effort to state there would be no vote, especially since this was already voted on and down voted. This disregard for the previous vote, at the time, made me wonder why we vote at all. What would be the sense in voting if it were simply overruled? I don't doubt for a second that you want the best for the league. However maybe what's best for the league is what its members want...we have an excellent league with top notch GMs and I like to think we are all a notch above the average fantasy hockey GM. Maybe the input these GMs have is valuable and should be strongly considered rather than overruled. I know a vote was put in place and is happening right now, but we need a process for any ideas for changes moving forward.
All I request is consistency. Like others, I want a stable league that follows due process. If major league decisions are to be made, please either allow a vote for each and every issue for majority rule, or implement your change as commish without input from the league GMs, but please don't blend the two approaches. Blending de-values the participation and sense of contribution from the GMs who make this league great.
Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with the idea of expansion, this could have happened for any issue (introduce FOW, eliminate SHP, etc.) and I still would have felt the same about how this idea was introduced. As for this vote, and my comment from April requesting that this be voted on each offseason, the proof is in the pudding with Dales comment. He saw the league develop and now agrees with expansion. Also, this vote isn't going to be a landslide so even if it is down voted again (along with further development and recognition by other GMs like Dale) maybe we should in fact revisit this. I'm not going to say any more about this and don't need a response, just wanted to sound off for future ideas and see that we are lined up on how we move forward.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 13:25:57 GMT -5
To me, something has to change. Pretty much in this league, there's really only 7 teams that have a shot at winning it all, unless the 8th seed got really lucky. I voted no, cause i would want this change in sooner, rather than later. Like we have a good group of people here, but to have only half the league have a chance at winning big money?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 13:35:48 GMT -5
And i just wanted to add in one more thing. I've only been in the league for a year now, but has this league ever went two straight seasons with the same rules? It pretty much affects how we run our teams. Just finally have rules in place that'll stay for the long term
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 14:54:47 GMT -5
Something was just brought up to me. Steve, and Glenn were talking about this for a year. So them two for just about a year could of taken advantage of this big time. Then after Steve makes this deal with Charles, now he brings it in? The timing for this couldn't be more crappy for sure
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 15:12:56 GMT -5
Something was just brought up to me. Steve, and Glenn were talking about this for a year. So them two for just about a year could of taken advantage of this big time. Then after Steve makes this deal with Charles, now he brings it in? The timing for this couldn't be more crappy for sure We have voted on and discussed this in the past as was stated before by multiple GMs. To even assume that what Steve and/or I do here on a daily basis is in any way done to gain a personal advantage is absurd. I stated time and again that I would go so far as to give up my squad to another GM in order to start a team from scratch as an expansion owner. So why would I try to manipulate rules in order to better my roster if I planned on leaving the very same team for another owner? It wouldn't make any sense at all. Sent from my SGH-I337M using proboards |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 15:19:04 GMT -5
Steve did gain an advantage. He did the deal, and after it, says we are going with 16 teams? If Charles knew this, would he of done the deal?. And Charles has stated he wouldn't of if he knew about this. That's called taking advantage
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 15:21:01 GMT -5
Steve did gain an advantage. He did the deal, and after it, says we are going with 16 teams? If Charles knew this, would he of done the deal?. And Charles has stated he wouldn't of if he knew about this. That's called taking advantage
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 15:39:10 GMT -5
All I'm saying is these guys know each other or are friends of someone within this league that vouched for the credibility of the other owners within the league. There's zero malicious intent. Yer looking for a fire where one doesn't exist.
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